If you are reading this blog, then you probably understand the state of video editors on Linux. There are many video editors, but they are either buggy, ugly, incompatible, abandoned collecting dust, or in perpetual development.
You've heard all of the excuses, "It's too complicated for volunteers", "The libraries just aren't ready yet", "There is no demand for this type of application", etc...
Cinelerra was started by a commercial company, and later open-sourced. Is that the answer? Does it take a corporate backer to make a good Linux video editor? PiTiVi was started as a volunteer effort, but is now being funded by a corporation. MLT, Kino, and Jahshaka have also had corporate backing. Is that what we need? More companies funding video editors? Do we need smarter developers? Better libraries? More creative users... and thus more demand? Why don't we have a good Linux video editor yet!?!?!?!
I feel somewhat qualified to answer this question, having built my own video editor over the past year. In my opinion, the reason so many video editors fail has nothing to do with corporate backing. It's not related to money at all. It's related to the quality of the libraries they are using, and their associated APIs. When an API is not easy to use, it creates a very real problem: overly complex code required to implement it. When a program has overly complex code, 2 things begin to happen. 1) Bugs - hard to debug bugs buried in overly complex code. This leads to problems in stability. 2) Contributors - the barrier to enter the project becomes very high. In other words, it takes a much larger commitment of time from contributors to understand the code base, and thus... you get less contributors. I believe this eventually leads to a dead project.
So... is that it? Is there no hope for the future of Linux video editing? Of course there is hope! In fact, there is an amazing video editing library that already exists! It's open-source, and amazingly powerful. It puts all these other video editing libraries to shame. It's the library that every single video editor on Linux should be using: MLT Framework. I believe this is one of the most under appreciated projects out there today.
Great libraries = simpler code
Simpler code = faster development & fewer bugs
Fewer bugs = happier users
Happier users = more contributors
Ok, maybe that equation is BS, but the point is... Linux has never been more ready for a video editor. The libraries are ready. The community is ready. If you only take away 1 thing from this entire project, please take away this: It is time for a Linux video editor! It is time!
,
July 24, 2009 8:14 AM
Great rallying speech there. Could have been taken straight from the Braveheart movie. :-)
Really looking forward to the first release of OpenShot.
July 24, 2009 11:28 AM
Couldn't agree more, Jonathan. And you're totally qualified to say it. You've proven it. OpenShot is the proof. It's amazing what you've achieved in so short time. And I'm so, so happy that Linux is finally ready for video editing. And we should never forget that behind great software, there are great libraries and frameworks which make it possible. Thanks to all those developers too.
July 24, 2009 11:43 AM
Yay!
I think a dedicated One Man Band can often achieve far more than a sprawling coalition of half-hearted hackers.
I found Kdenlive to be a bit hit and miss on support, anything too difficult and they don't seem to really care. So long as it works for them.
I hope you're prepared for the onslaught once the masses get their mitts on it!
best wishes
July 25, 2009 2:45 AM
wellwisher, Kdenlive also uses the MLT library that Jonathan is advocating. I also think the support is decent for what it is. Their (mine?) problem is not a matter of difficulty, it is a matter of juggling many demands including bugs reports and features, not to mention personal life and jobs - all the while not wanting to "burn out."
Also, a correction: Kino was not funded development. I did get one small contract for the development of certain features, but I hardly consider a man month of paid work for the years of total work put in a corporate backing.
A lot of open source software including the ones cited like Cinelerra and PiTiVi in addition to MLT, not to mention the entire stack of dependencies, are a combination of funded and volunteer work. I also include the feedback of users to resolve bugs, request features, offer usability feedback, provide peer support, build packages, and make tutorials as part of that volunteer effort. And even though a significant amount of my effort put into MLT was funded, trust me, an equivalent amount was not!
July 25, 2009 12:06 PM
Thanks for the comment Dan! Nicely said.
July 25, 2009 4:20 PM
With Kdenlive, OpenShot, and others, I think having an ecology of open source video editors on Linux is the best thing. This is a really exciting time.
July 27, 2009 5:28 PM
Hey Jonathan,
Great project you have here. I would love for you to state your reasons why you didn't choose to work on the Blender VSE. It's got a lot of features, is very stable, and plugged into the rest of Blender for effects. I keep seeing people starting projects for video editors but I can't understand why nobody is tempted to extend the power of Blender VSE. There seems to be no reason you can't have another interface in it either if you want your own, given how flexible the interface is (and they are updating it right now to make it even better for such modifications).
Blenders VSE, along with its main 3D effects engine and python scripting, seems to be the perfect storm for a pro-level editor. And any pro level editor that might rise separately from Blender is going to want to interface pretty closely with it anyway if it aspires to go above "consumer" grade.
I've been thinking of donating some bounty money for features and doing some advocacy to get video moving on Linux so your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
July 27, 2009 6:20 PM
NLEatwork wrote "I keep seeing people starting projects for video editors but I can't understand why nobody is tempted to extend the power of Blender VSE."
Blender as a video editor is a relatively recent option. How many video editing projects have you really seen started since Peter Schlaile added FFmpeg to Blender VSE? I believe PiTiVi, Open Movie Editor, Kdenlive, and LIVES all predate that AFAIK. Some of these projects want to integrate better with a desktop toolkit or cross-application multimedia framework or not want to particularly target the professional market or advanced content creation environment that is Blender. Anyways, maybe your point stands for the Lumiera project, but that is kind of born from Cinelerra, which predates them all with its Broadcast 2000 heritage.
I agree that developers in this space should work more together, which is why I abandoned Kino, initially reminded Jonathan about PiTiVi, and have now embraced him as a user of MLT along with Kdenlive, where we all integrate and collaborate with other important companion projects such as FFmpeg, LADSPA, and frei0r. It is not really fair to say anymore that someone is going at it alone. This could be a little upsetting to some, but I like to think of OpenShot as the GTK+ frontend to this stack, and Kdenlive the KDE frontend - each with their unique take. Could or should there be a Blender one? Should MLT become a common video editing DOM implementation? I have wanted to integrate some Blender functionality into MLT, but unfortunately its only API being a limited Python one makes it unattractive at the moment.
July 27, 2009 6:59 PM
hello Dan,
Many thanks for your comments.
I would also love to see Blender functionality in OpenShot and in MLT. And would love to see some OpenShot functionality in Blender VSE.
In my extensive searching for good Linux based video editing and production tools, the most useful and usable packages I have found to date have been:
Blender
OpenShot
Kdenlive
Kino
We on OpenShot are collaborating with you Dan on MLT. Blender.org is a large organisation, and well funded. Could Blender.org offer help in the form of developers to assist with integrating Blender functionality into MLT (and so also into OpenShot and Kdenlive)?
Can we get some open discussion on collaboration with the Blender.org developers, along with you Dan on MLT, and the OpenShot team, and the KDenlive team?
Yes collaboration is the way forward
in the Open Source Bazaar.
Please will Blender.org start discussing collaboration with us?
Helen McCall
July 28, 2009 7:30 AM
I guess the strongest point for Blender is that it is cross-platform. How does this aspect look in regards of MLT and Openshot?
BTW. a Gstreamer wrapper for Avisynth is beeing worked on - which might make Avisynth cross-platform and therefore an interesting project for MLT/Openshot.
July 28, 2009 11:17 AM
just tried the newest build. it failed. I reopened the ticket. it wouldn't even finish installing. I posted the error in my ticket.
BTW, I agree with NLEatwork, blender should be the NLE for linux. It's so much closer to a professional editor. But with no attention to the sequencer, it may stay unfinished for a while.
openshot would be nice as a basic one, if it worked. for me, now, it's at the same level as kdenlive. Same libraries and basic source with a better gui, but all that has only gone as far as screenshots to look at. hopefully it'll work with the .deb package.
July 28, 2009 11:48 AM
66666er wrote: "blender should be the NLE for linux"
Fortunately, no one gets to control what gets to be the NLE for Linux. Too bad for you. Hooray for the rest of us!
tin2tin: MLT already runs on OS X, and is available in MacPorts. I am currently working on the ability to embed the player window into an application's window. That is working in my uncommitted code, but I still have to properly handle resizing.
I am sure someone will take a look at gstreamer's avisynth wrapper for inclusion in MLT. However, IMO, there is absolutely no shortage of portable, open source image processing libraries and routines. However, there is a lack of developers to integrate them into other things and build nice UIs for them that make sense in workflows.
July 28, 2009 1:07 PM
Many thanks again to you Dan.
We don't have monopolies in the Opens Source Community. And we use the co-operative model rather than the competitive model.
@66666er - I have not yet seen a bug report from you on our bug tracker. If you have genuine problems with using or installing OpenShot, please will you submit your report on the OpenShot bug tracker on Launchpad. And give full details as to the operating system version (and 32 or 64 bits) and the installation choices selected.
Many thanks, Helen
July 28, 2009 1:47 PM
hey helen,
my problem is under question #76255, I reopened it since its the same problem.
ddennedy, no ones hooraying considering how far off we are from a robust nle that's available on the other two major OSes. rehashing kdenlive to a better gui is nice, but it's nothing to a final cut pro or premiere. Blender's advanced 3d modeling and advanced compositing could make it a killer suite with an improved video sequencer.
but then again we can leave the tit for tat schtick out of it.
July 28, 2009 4:19 PM
Hello 66666er
I had a look at answer #76255, This is a question, not a bug report. This is why I haven't seen it in the bug tracker.
You're problem is not a bug in OpenShot. On the contrary it is OpenShot behaving correctly.
The install wizard 1.06 installs the libraries as .deb packages targeted on /usr/local - this is to avoid conflicts with the main Ubuntu packages.
You happen to have installed another version of x264 in /usr/local. dpkg has correctly terminated the install rather than overwrite your installed library.
You will need to un-install your version of x264 before OpenShot will install fully.
Helen McCall
July 28, 2009 4:42 PM
@66666er,
Blender is a great product, and has a ton of contributors. I understand your argument, but I think you need to make it to the Blender devs, and not us. The only way they will improve their NLE is by hearing feedback from people like you. My point... If you are serious about improving Blender, then this is the wrong forum for that. If you just want to argue with someone, please don't do it on my blog.
Let's keep this conversation positive!
-Jonathan
July 28, 2009 5:07 PM
def. understand jonathon, can do.
helen, thanks for that. That did it, it installed, but now it still crashes when I try to import a video clip, specifically a .mp4 (all my clips are in that format). I dunno if it has to do with the ffmpeg version I chose. I chose option 1 (recommended one) since I already had the latest ffmpeg version.
July 28, 2009 6:45 PM
ok so i reinstalled it with option 3 ffmpeg and it works! although one problem which I also had in kdenlive is that when a clip is played it doesn't play continuously. THere are stutters in the video/audio almost like its trying to buffer. I tried different sequence settings like ntsc square, dv ntsc, hdv, and what not. no dice.
July 28, 2009 7:17 PM
Hello 66666er,
The stuttering effect is what you get with AVCHD. It is caused by the way that AVCHD is compressed. It is a block compression which is referenced across a number of frames, with only changing pixels (ie movement) being recorded in most frames. So for any frame to be rendered, the software has to reference back for quite a number of frames.
Eventually the libraries which provide this functionality will be improved. Dan Dennedy can probably give a much better explanation on this than I can.
However even the software inside AVCHD cameras is not completely free from such problems. This is one of the reasons why broadcasting companies do not usually accept AVCHD, and insist on either HDV or HDCAM for all submitted work.
My work-around (similar to the method employed in Final Cut Pro) is to pre-process all my clips in OpenShot, converting them to mp4 codec before editing. Though I do sometimes edit entirely in AVCHD.
Another option is to get a Sony HVR Z7E HDV camcorder! This is what I intend to do ;-)
Helen
July 28, 2009 8:09 PM
that's weird, I have a dvx100b, that shouldn't be a problem unless the codec premiere uses for mpeg4 is affected. The avi file I tried works great. only wish there was more of a snapping motion to the time grid. can't wait for the separate audio tracks to be implemented. Also wondering if option like frame pull-down can be done to get a true 24 frame per second video. I believe if the files could uploaded to a 23.97 fps sequence frame pull down would not be needed, but it would be needed if the video is shot in true 24 fps, but it is inputed to a 30 fps sequence
July 29, 2009 3:53 AM
Dear 66666er (alias Holmes),
This is Jonathan's blog about the development of OpenShot. It is not the place to seek tuition in basic usage of OpenShot. And when seeking personal tuition, it helps if you make a polite enquiry, instead of just making cynical criticisms.
If you have been reading these blogs properly, you will have noticed that Jonathan has described how OpenShot gives exceptionally fine control over the speed of clips and renders. Try playing with the speed control in Clip Properties.
Also if you read through the blogs here, and the answers section on Launchpad, you will discover how separate sound tracks are successfully implemented - with sound editing also. And you will also find discussions on snapping to the grid.
I am currently engaged in writing a comprehensive Help Manual for OpenShot which will be ready for our first stable release V1.0.0
Many thanks, Helen
June 9, 2010 8:27 PM
This project is awesome! Please continue to work on it I hate pitivi, kdenlive etc. They are garbage. I love OpenShot's interface. Keep up the good work!
October 30, 2010 8:49 AM
Installer for Fedora 13 requires python-2.6 but I actually have 2.7 so RPM is no go. Bummer.